In G-string hell

[jglunt2112]

My mechanic once told me, "Jim, things happen to your vehicles that have never happened to any vehicle in the history of vehicles." It's true of my basses too. I recently bought a used Tribute Kiloton (see "Obligatory Pictures...") and discovered something strange with it. I changed strings and did a setup a couple days after it arrived, and all looked well. Then I discovered that though the G-string was perfectly intonated, it was way out of tune. If I tune it perfectly to an open G, it is also at a perfect G at fret 12. However, in between is chaos. On the first fret, the tuner shows it to be nearly 1/4 tone off of the G# it should be on. This continues up the neck, gradually getting closer to correct pitch until it hits fret 12, where it's right on. Every other string reacts as it should. The neck is the proper 21 fret neck that a Kiloton should have. I have tried everything I can think of, including checking it with another tuner and trying another G-string, but it is always the same. Can anybody help?

[Ken Baker]

Then I discovered that though the G-string was perfectly intonated, it was way out of tune. If I tune it perfectly to an open G, it is also at a perfect G at fret 12. However, in between is chaos.

Please define this chaos. Sharp, flat?

How does the string sound when played through an amp or phones? How about when fretting in this area? A little fuzzy or maybe even warbly?

Every other string reacts as it should.

BINGO! I think? Maybe? Okay, here's my stab.

Two broken strings in a row would have me looking very carefully at the string path for any sort of burr or sharp edge that should not be there. The saddles should be smooth. The tuner posts should have kinda-sorta sharp slot edges (to grab the string), but these edges should be consistent and not have any serrations. The outside of the posts should be smooth, as should the underside of the string retainer.

Moar?!

Make sure the bridge is properly seated and tightened down. Be sure that saddle height adjusters are set evenly. Check that the nut doesn't wiggle around in any direction, including rocking in its slot.

Ken...

[jglunt2112]

Please define this chaos. Sharp, flat?

Thanks, Ken. I'll check all that out. A knowledgeable friend told me he thought the nut slot wasn't cut deeply enough and the string stretched too far when pressing it down. This would be more noticeable at the 1st fret and get less noticeable the farther up the neck it goes. This is the chaos of which I speak. According to my tuner, with the open string tuned perfectly to G, on fret one, it's almost a quarter tone sharp--a sharp G#. Each fret is just slightly less sharp until it gets to the 12th fret, where it's right on.

How does the string sound when played through an amp or phones? How about when fretting in this area? A little fuzzy or maybe even warbly?

It is a little warbly-sounding. I thought I might have gotten it twisted, so I loosened it and checked. It seemed OK, and it's hard for me to believe that I might have gotten two different strings twisted when I normally don't have a problem with this. But could it happen? Sure.

[jglunt2112]

I am still searching for a solution to this issue. I made a last minute decision to visit my son for Christmas. He lives 350 miles away from me but close to my regular luthier, in whom I have the utmost confidence, so I took the bass along. He capoed the string on the 1st fret, but it still had the issue. He put a different string on it and said, "See, that's better. It's much closer." I didn't notice much difference, and closer is not what I was seeking, though I guess I might have to settle for that. My other basses, G&L and otherwise, don't get "closer," they get damned near perfect. He did confirm other things that I had checked rather hurriedly. For instance, all the frets are in the correct positions. The bridge position is correct, so it is a proper 34" scale. One thing he discovered was this: When that G-string is tuned to G and intonated to G on the 12th fret, it is hideously sharp on the first fret, then gradually gets less sharp on each fret up the neck until fret 12, where, of course, it's right on G. After that, it gets progressively flat going up the neck from the 12th fret. This was new to me. He told me the only solution was that I had gotten two bad strings in a row. But two bad strings, one of which was an Ernie Ball Slinky Cobalt flat and the other some unknown D'Addario roundwound? And these two different strings were both defective in the same way? He says he's had it happen, and he's been at this for probably 55 years, so I believe him. But what are the odds? Ken, I have checked all the things you so graciously suggested. When I get home, I plan to temporarily switch that string onto a bass that I know intonates perfectly. If indeed the string is bad, that will certainly tell the tale. In the meantime, if anybody has any other suggestions for things I might try, please chip in.

[Ken Baker]

What I'm listing toward is a broken or partially broken winding (hence the warbly kind of sound). That's why I said to look for smoothness in the string path where it needs to be smooth. If the core was broken you wouldn't be able to tune it. Being a G string the windings are pretty fine, so finding a break or crack will be a tough job.

Got another brand G string to try?

Ken...

[jglunt2112]

Before I do anything else, Ken, let me thank you for your constant willingness to help. May you and all the helpful folks here on BbL have a wonderful new year.

Got another brand G string to try?

This is actually the first thing I tried. It seemed like the obvious solution--bad string, right? So I swapped out the Ernie Ball Slinky flatwound for a D'Addario XL roundwound.Very different string, same ol' thing. That led me to a possible nut problem, the next obvious issue, right? So I capoed at the 1st fret, re-intonated, and tried it again. Same thing. It seems simple. It has to be either the string, the nut, or the bridge, right? Neither the tuner not the string tree could have this kind of effect, could they? There is nothing else. The bridge is tight, the saddle is level and shows no visible signs of anything wrong. That G-string saddle does sit a little higher than on my other G&ls. I haven't checked for a shim under the neck, but even if there is one, I don't see it affecting the G-string without affecting the others, and it's the only one that is a problem. Of course, it is a G-string. Maybe if I slipped a five dollar bill under it, it would be more cooperative. (Oh no! Did I just say that?!?)

[Ken Baker]

Before I do anything else, Ken, let me thank you for your constant willingness to help. May you and all the helpful folks here on BbL have a wonderful new year.

Thanks! Same back at you and yours!

Of course, it is a G-string. Maybe if I slipped a five dollar bill under it, it would be more cooperative. (Oh no! Did I just say that?!?)

Yes, you did. And that thing better start dancing!

Let's assume for the moment that the string(s) are okay, that this is somewhere on the bass itself. It becomes a frequency thing. Pretty much anything that has a resonant frequency near or the same as the string. ANYTHING that might be a tad loose; tuner screws, tuner post nut, bridge & saddle screws, fasteners on the jack, etc. Maybe touch them all with a little tightening.

Edit to add: Along the frequency lines, do you hear any weirdness if you play a note one octave below the troublesome G string note?

More edit: Play the weird note. While it rings (and do this quickly) firmly touch various pieces of the hardware: tuning post, tuner shaft, tuner ears, etc. Get your 4mm allen wrench, play the note, and engage the wrench in the trussrod and give it a little side load. Did the note change or clean up while you did these things? If yes, which one?

Here's a L O N G reach: Tap test your pickup. Parallel mode, low volume. The taps should sound essentially the same between the coils. Be sure to tap on the G poles.

Failing everything else, maybe contact Memo to see what he thinks.

Ken...

[jglunt2112]

I'm stunned. I found the problem. But first, Ken, I have to apologize to you. I've had you racking your brain for solutions, and I know first hand how painful brain-racking can be. Thank you! It was right in front of me all the time. In talking to my long-time luthier and telling him everything I had tried, he told me, "String. It has to be the string." Of course, I knew that there was no way that a roundwound D'Addario string and a flatwound Ernie Ball string could both be bad in the same way at the same time on the same bass. So I took the GHS Pressurewound G-string off my SB-2 and put it on the Tribute Kiloton. I knew that string was fine, and I was gonna be happy to contact my luthier and tell him, "Nah. It played out-of-tune for the third time, and that string was fine on another bass." I'd show him and all his knowledge and experience! However, I discovered the GHS was fine on the Kiloton as well. So two bad G-strings of a different brand and a different winding and winding material were bad on the same bass in the same way at the same time. What are the odds? I'm headed to the store to buy a Power Ball ticket. Soon you'll be hearing about a new millionaire in Arizona. Thank you again!

[Ken Baker]

Happy New Year, Jim!

May all your strings be good ones!

Ken...

[jglunt2112]

Thank you, Ken. Happy New Year to you and yours, and to all the fine folks here on Basses by Leo!